Can anyone please help me? James Downie is my 3xGt Grandfather.His dates are approx 1780-1833. His ship was both a convict ship and one that collected ship's spars in New Zealand. The Coromandel Peninsula in New Zealand is named after the ship. The story goes that his wife died in childbirth on board the ship in 1820.The baby was left with a Minister in Parramatta,Australia. Although I have these facts, I am unsure as to where to go from here.Many thanks in anticipation.

Downie is shown in contemporary Navy Lists as a Master - not a Captain.  This means that he was not a commissioned officer, but a Warrant Officer, indeed, the senior WO on a ship.  His status was the equivalent of a Lieutenant, and he was expected to be skilled in seamanship and navigation.  

As Navy Lists did not show appointments before about 1812, it is extremely difficult to trace his naval career without going to the original documents in the National Archives at Kew.  

Document ref: ADM.106/3517 may help, as this should be an analysis of Master’s services; also ADM.11/6 which is an index of names and ships. He would have had to prove his capability to become a Master, and this should have generated a Passing Certificate (ADM.106/… series).  


What I can say is that he became a Master on 22 April 1797

Where he served 1797 - 1805 I cannot say

1805 - HMS TRIDENT

Again, a gap until:

1812 - 13 HMS CHATHAM

17 may 1813 HMS RIVOLI (to 1815)

No appointment listed 1815 - 17

HMS COROMANDEL in command 27 may 1818.
Voyage to Brazil October 1818; returned Portsmouth July 1819; sailed Spithead 1 Nov 1819 with 300 convicts embarked; arrived Hobart 4 April 1820; returned Portsmouth December 1821. Paid off February 1822.

No appointments shown after 1822


From the Morning Chronicle (London) 25 July 1818
“Mr James Downie, late Master of the Rivoli, Captain Hammond, and the Chatham, under the command of Sir Graham Moore, is appointed commander of the Coromandel store ship of 1200 tons, now lying at Chatham, supposed to be destined for the Brazils, and to touch at Madeira and the Western Isles. This fine ship is now out of dock and is expected to sail in the course of three weeks.”

Morning Chronicle 26 September 1818:
“The Coromandel store ship, James Downie Esq, master, has sailed from Chatham, and is now in the Downs, on her way to Portsmouth. The Coromandel is destined for Rio de Janeiro and has the British consul’s son onboard as a passenger”

Morning Chronicle 25 December 1821:
“On Monday (yesterday sennight) his majesty’s storeship Coromandel, Mr James Downie, Master, arrived from New South Wales, last from Mercury Bay, New Zealand, with a cargo of timber, having had a pleasant direct passage from thence, round Cape Horn, of only fifteen weeks, without a day’s foul wind. ..”

Philonauticus,MANY thanks on behalf of myself,relatives in Australia and New Zealand. This is info none of us have managed to find.Re the dates we have for James-1780-1833. If he was Master in 1797, that makes him 17 years old when appointed. Is this rather young to be a Master?I think we have an incorrect birthdate.....We do not have a name for his wife.Is there any way of finding this info? Would she really have been able to accompany him on his voyages?The dates of my Gt Gt Grandmother's birth and James Downie's activities from 1820 onwards match.So, I think we are on the right track.I think I MUST visit Kew asap.

re: age - 17 is far too young to be a Master; I suspect that the date of birth is wrong.

Other info, (i.e. wife etc.)- there are various ways to track down a relative.  One way would be to check the Pay Books of the ships he served on.  Seamen could allot some of their pay to their wives ashore - if this was done by Downie, it will be recorded.  This can then be further traced through the 'Allotment Registers' and 'Remittance Ledgers' - the registers are filed under ships name, whilst the ledgers are under date.
Pay and Muster Books for the ships are also useful for other info - they can record the age, place of birth and sometimes a little descrïption of the man.

All now in the Archives at Kew - Remittance Ledgers under file reference ADM.26/28 to ADM.26/38 and the Allotment Registers in the ADM.27/series. Pay books for ships in the ADM.35 series

Downie would also have kept a Journal or Log.  That for the COROMANDEL is under ref;ADM.51/2201 and ADM.52/3936; you will also find his journals of the Chatham and Rivoli.

You may also like to know that there are several watercolour paintings by Downie in the Archives - various views of the New Zealand coastline, evidently done when onboard the Coromandel (in file refs: ADM.344/1739 and ADM.344/1752) and another "A view of Ascension island, 17 July 1805" under reference ADM.344/994

...I should also have answered your other question - would his wife have accompanied him.  The answer is yes.

Again, MANY thanks. I am so glad I found the site. Apparently James may have been brother to Murdo Downie-also a Master, and George Downie-a Captain. The mystery widens....Can I ask you, would the refs to the 2 watercolours indicate the dates they were painted-1739 and 1752, or is that just coincidence? He also drew maps, are these at Kew do you know?

No No, the date is 1805-- our error

Well, one is 1805, HMS Trident, the other 1820-21, when he was there. But Murdo and George D were definitly brothers, sons of John D minister of Stornoway and later of Gairloch, and a James D son of Patrick D was baptised in Stornoway at nearly the same time as Murdo, so the navy may have been a famikly tradition.

Re: the other DOWNIE’s - there seems to be no shortage of Downies

I have found a couple of references to Murdo Downie: apparently served in the Royal Navy 1793 to 1799 (sorry, no details of ships); he died 30 June 1806 - his wife, Ann Downie, applied for money from the Officer’s Relief Fund (papers in national archives, Ref: ADM.6/345 page 45)



Oh, and I found another Downie - a Charles, who served with the East India Company … born 22 November 1770 at "Gerloch", Ross, son of John Downie, Minister.   He served for 2 years in the coasting trade as a seaman; then for another 7 years in ships trading to the West Indies. In the Royal Navy for 2 years (masters mate and master); 1795 -96 4th Mate in the East Indiaman MALABAR then 1797 - 98 3rd Mate in the Indiaman CALCUTTA.




GEORGE DOWNIE
His Obit. Appeared in the Morning Chronicle 24.11.1814; also details gathered from contemporary references and the Navy List.

Outline: son of a clergyman in Wexford, Ireland; entered the Navy; as a Midshipman served onboard the CIRCE frigate and present at the battle of Camperdown in 1797; later moved to the frigate MELAMPUS and then the APOLLO frigate, which was then serving in the West Indies. Promoted to Lieutenant 23 March 1802 by the local Commander in Chief, he returned to England for the recovery of his health, and his commission was confirmed.  Appointed to the SEAHORSE frigate in 1804. In May 1805 Downie led a party of men to capture a small  Spanish convoy, anchored in a bay, despite it being protected by a gun battery. By 1808 he was the First Lieutenant of the frigate; 5 July 1808 they fought a sharp action against the Turkish frigate Badr-I-Zafr, in which he particularly distinguished himself.  Promoted to Commander as a direct result of this, and given command of the sloop ROYALIST, employed in the English Channel. In January 1813 promoted to Captain and appointed to the MONTREAL, in Canada, but moved to the Great Lakes, to supervise and then take command of the newly built squadron of ships, led by the CONFIANCE.
He was killed 11 September 1814 in the opening minutes of the battle of Plattsburg.

I have more info. on the various actions mentioned if you are interested.

So Murdo and Charles were brothers, and the plot thickens, as Malabar was the original name of the Coromandel when she was commissioned into the navy-- but I think that this Malabar was commissioned well after the date of Charles's service in the earlier Malabar. There is a website for George D which gives his father's name as John and his parish as Gairloch, and the IGI website confirms that a George D was in fact baptised there in 1778.
There is one more detail about Murdo in the National archive: his child was murdered in 1800 (I think-- from memory) and his wife Ann was the daughter of a doctor, Dr Grant, of Inverness.
But James?